Karen Harding interviewed David Keogh, Founder of Sydney based, Perfect Pitch & Bands4Brands to discuss everything about building your audience and fan-base and building a buzz around your music.
Dave Keogh has been a music fan since he first heard The Beatles as a young boy and then stood just beyond a rain-soaked, windswept tarmac as an awe-struck eight-year old, watching the legendary band disembark from their TAA Flight.
He later managed bands and toured Australia regularly in the early 1980s, supporting the likes of Mental As Anything, Flowers (Icehouse) and Dragon.
He’s been a venue booker, a journo. writing gig reviews for various music mags., licensed theatrical agent and a record company publicist. (And he actually got to meet George Harrison at a press conference in the mid-’80s!) Dave’s also been a professional writer and creative director working in the advertising/marketing industry for decades, with time spent at major agencies including O & M and McCann Erickson before co-founding his own communications agency Vida in 2000. He launched music marketing agency Perfect Pitch in the mid-2000s mainly to help emerging artists to build their profile and their fan base. And he’s recently launched Music Branding agency Bands4Brands.
Dave has organised, booked and acted as M.C. at Live Music venue Eastern Lounge for a decade.
Who is David Keogh in everyday life?
First and foremost, I’m a dad to three beautiful kids..
Beyond that, I’ve been a professional writer since I left school.. all those years ago.. I started professional life as a cadet journalist before sidestepping into advertising and marketing.
On my CV, also was time spent as an editor, a published, poet, a theatrical agent, a venue booker, band manager, record company, publicist and a qualified tennis coach.. so that’s me!
What really lights you up?
My two main passions, away from my family are undoubtedly music and sport when I’m not working.
By day I’m either at the beach in summer or playing tennis or golf. At night, of course you’ll find me at one of Sydney’s live music venues, catching a great gig.
You started as a journalist.. What was it that that made you sidestep into focusing on music?
I stepped into advertising first, and the bottom line was, as much as I loved journalism, it didn’t pay anywhere near as well as advertising did.. So I became a junior advertising copywriter at a young age and spent a few years with the multinationals, before branching out by myself. The moment I did branch out by myself, I was always intent on weaving my passions into my career.
That’s when you know the music came along.. I always believe in that you follow your passions and be true to yourself.. Music is definitely part of who I am.
You’ve had so much experience, in so many different areas of the music industry.. What’s been the most memorable experience for you?
Well, you already mentioned it, actually.. I have had some great experiences but personally, and as a Beatles tragic, I’d have to say that that meeting George Harrison and Derek Taylor – who was the Beatles publicist – at one event, was the highlight.. I also met Sir George Martin, the Beatles producer as well.. Both of those were dreams come true.
The fact that I actually conned my way into a press conference at The Sydney Opera House, to meet George was something that I probably shouldn’t be proud of, but I am.. It was just a wonderful moment in time for me..
You launched Perfect Pitch in the mid 2000s and recently you launched band Bands4Brands.. would you be able to give us a little bit of an insight as to what each of those businesses are and what the inspiration was behind starting them?
I think the inspiration was just to weave music into my professional career because I am so passionate about it.
With Perfect Pitch it was very much an altruistic enterprise.. I honestly started it with the main aim of just helping emerging artists to build their profile and to build their fan base.
It’s really what I was doing in my marketing communications agency, just applied to music.. The principles are the same so that was and still is the main aim of Perfect Pitch.
Bands4Brands is a little bit different because that’s aimed not directly at the musicians, although it gives them another great platform, but the whole aim of that, is to make corporates realise that they should be using the emotion and the power of music to connect with their audiences.. to actually weave music into who they are as a company, into their brand.. into their image.. into their communications and marketing strategy.
That’s still pretty new.. music branding per se isn’t new but there’s not a lot of it happening in Australia and I think there’s a huge opportunity for more brands to use music as part of who they are as as a brand. That in turn will help a lot more musicians as well.
How has the journey been as you’ve seen those businesses grow?
Almost always fun.. There’s been a few hiccups along the way as there is in launching or running any business, but overall I consider myself to be very lucky to be working in an area that I love.. That’s living the dream.
Was it always your dream to be able to create your own businesses and work for yourself?
Yeah, I think so.. As I said, when I was working for a lot of the multinational agencies, sometimes I was having to sell stuff just for the sake of selling it and to me that wasn’t being true to myself..
I’ve worked for myself probably three or four times over my career journey.. sometimes I’m headhunted to go back into agency life or whatever else, but in the end, 20 years ago I decided ‘no.. that’s it”.
I’ve been working for myself ever since.
You’ve achieved a lot through doing that as well, which is amazing..
Yeah, I mean, obviously there’s different measurements of what achievement is but I’m content.
What’s your definition of achievement?
I think if you’re happy doing what you’re doing every day, that’s great. Obviously there’s financial rewards but I would be making a lot more money if I was still working in advertising than I am, working for myself. Life is is about balance and it’s about doing what you love doing.
I consider myself better off doing what I’m doing than had I stayed full time in advertising.
Would you be able to take us through a little bit about what your day would look like as you’re working with your clients, or what the process is that you would take your clients through?
Every day is different in massive.. massive ways, but because Perfect Pitch works mainly with emerging artists, there have been exceptions.
We’ve worked with some very established artists as well but I’d probably start off by reviewing their current marketing. I mean, they might not even call it marketing, but I review what they’re doing to get their music and their message out there.
Having reviewed what they’re doing right now to get their music and marketing out, the next step would be giving them the roadmap in terms of strategies and tactics to help them.. Everything from building their profile, building their fan base, getting gigs, creating that buzz around the music. I let them know the kind of tactics that they can put in place.
Some of them they know already but I can also help out with specifics of course, like writing bios or media releases, creating websites, designing logos, even helping them with their styling and image to help them stand out from the pack.
Have you had many experiences where the expectations of clients, as they first come in, have been quite different to yours and and are you able to share an example of that?
We sort that out when we first get together. I find out what their expectations are and I’d say that it doesn’t go wrong very often because I know what what they want.. they know what I do, so it works out well.
I have had one instance of a of a particular established artist who had asked me to run a media campaign based around a run of shows that he was holding and I think he expected he would be on the front page of every newspaper, magazine and broadcast, all over tv and radio and the bottom line was I had warned him that you have to have a newsworthy story to get that kind of coverage. We got some coverage for him which I thought was pretty good, but not enough to meet his expectations.
That happens but that’s very rare.. Most often we’re we’re on the same page.
For musicians that may be looking to expand on their their own music, what would you recommend that they begin to focus on, in starting to get more gigs and increasing their fan base?
My first piece of advice would be.. In this social media obsessed world, is to not rely solely on social media as your means of communicating with fans. It’s a very important component of an overall strategy but that’s what it is.. It’s one component.
The fact is the musician who wants to make a living from doing what they love, must compete as a brand. They must always project a professional and cohesive image across absolutely everything they do online, offline, on stage.. It doesn’t matter.. they have to be the brand.
I am a firm believer that every artist needs their own website. A lot of you say, I’ve got Facebook, it’s okay.. well not really because you don’t own any of the data you have on Facebook.
You really want your website.. and I’m talking to you now as an artist.. to be the door to your fan club.. You know you want to drive people there, where they can find out about you.. they can hear your music.. they can buy your music.. that’s your main portal between between you and the fan.
So, with that website and brand established, then all the people you want to talk to.. the venue owners.. the festival bookers.. the media.. they can find you, they can find out about you and they can make their decision as to whether they want to connect with you.
If you’ve just got a Facebook page, it ain’t enough.
What are some other avenues that you think that artists should be looking at.. other non-social media avenues?
Email marketing is still incredibly powerful. It’s still important to build a list at every gig.. collect names and email, addresses. It’s still one of the the best ways of communicating.. to tell your fans about upcoming gigs.
I mean, yes, you can do all that on Facebook, I know, but if you want to if you want to sell stuff, to actually create that relationship that any marketing plan has at its core, then you should be talking to your fans by email on a regular basis and know that they want to hear from you and and want that connection.
That’s a key point.. because any day Facebook could close their doors at any time…
Absolutely.. yeah.. You remember MySpace, right?
In your eyes, what does it mean to really create a buzz around your music as an artist?
All marketing is about relationships and building relationships.. maintaining relationships.. the longer the relationship between fans and an artist, the more successful that artist will be.
Fans are a musician’s currency.. Venue and festival bookers want to know how many fans you have before they’ll book you.. Record companies want to know how many music fans you’ve got so they can guesstimate the sales of the music you create.. Journals want to know how many fans you’ve got to know whether it’s worth publishing a story about you, so that people will read it.
Understanding your fans.. who they are.. where they hang out.. where you can find them.. that’s to me the essential first step about building a buzz.
Then it’s a matter of speaking with them regularly.. getting them on board to help spread the word.
The idea is to get those fans and convert them into advocates.. your virtual street team that’s out there spreading the word on your behalf and of course playing regular gigs helps too
How do you feel that social media has helped musicians and how do you feel that it’s hindered them in the process?
Obviously, social media is a a wonderful.. It’s made it so much easier for musicians to get their music out to the world.. it’s made it easy to connect with influencers.. it’s a wonderful, wonderful thing in a lot of ways.
I think the downside is it’s a trap for those artists who think it’s all they need because they need more than that.. They need to collect information.. they need to analyse that information and they need the knowledge they get from that analysis to constantly update and improve their marketing so you know Facebook doesn’t really give you the opportunity to do that.
I know there are some analytics involved with it, but it ain’t the same as actually gathering that information first-hand from your website or your email exchanges and building on that.
There are so many musicians out there, trying to promote their music.. How do you think that they can cut through the noise of all those musicians that are out there trying to do the same thing?
For starters, you have to be good.. I’m sorry but that alone is the best way for word to start spreading about a musician.. You have to have that talent..
Beyond that you need to be different.. Now going back into marketing speak, we talk about a unique selling proposition.. It’s that thing that makes you different from the next user and again as an artist you need to have that.. and this could be starting with the kind of music you play or the style or image that you portray..
Then you need that marketing communications plan I spoke about.. and you need to dedicate time to implementing it because if you’re just posting on Facebook or whatever, there’s a lot more to that.. like anything in life, if you’re going to succeed at that old adage about inspiration and perspiration holds true.. It’s um it’s one of those things you have to put in the hard yards.. you can’t just play a few gigs and expect to become famous.
I know it’s probably not what you guys out there want to hear but it still remains the truth.. Just keep on pushing.. be persistent..
What are your thoughts on more traditional kind of advertising platforms such as newspaper, magazines, TV..?
They’re still important.. TV, radio, print media, press.. particularly the music mags.. all those things are still important and they shouldn’t be ignored..
Online has brought so many new opportunities but that doesn’t mean that you should ignore traditional media because TV and radio still reach an awful lot of people and if your music’s being played there, that’s a that’s a very good thing so again it’s a matter of how you weave that in.
The publicity across the board is still a hugely important tool for for musicians so like everything else, it’s a balance and you need to direct your efforts into all areas.. or anywhere that you can get exposure.
How would an artist find out who exactly who their ideal fan would be?
My thoughts on this are always to start with the early adopters.. always start with the people who first like your band.. go to see you at your first gig.. those who support you first.. these are the people who who are showing you that they’re willing to take an active interest in you and your music and and will hopefully buy your music when it’s released, so you’ve got to treat them like gold.
They’ve been actively enthusiastic enough to independently find out about you and to invest their time in you.. now it’s your turn.. you’ve got to find out about them.
What do they like? What other music do they like apart from your band and that itself will will give you a guide to future marketing.. Where do they discover new music? what platforms are they on? That’s where you need to be.. so once you start to build up that profile of your ideal fan, then you can match that to the profile of other fans so fans who love such and such a band are likely to like my kind of music, so I’ll go and lean in on the conversations of fans of that other band and tell them about us.. It’s that kind of thing.. Start with the early adopters.
How do you go about creating this buzz without over doing it and without creating what many would call spam?
That’s a good question and there is a line that you don’t want to cross.. but I think most artists actually are on the side of not talking to their fans enough, to be honest.. Certainly the ones that I work with..
You don’t want to bug your fans by bombarding their inboxes or their or their social pages every day but by communicating with them on a regular basis, you form a genuine relationship and there’s that word again.. and that often leads to higher referral rates them talking about you to their friends their family and also usually increases them the potential they’re going to become customers.. people who are going to buy your music.
I think it’s a fine line.. you don’t want to overdo it but don’t be afraid of talking to them on a regular basis because they sincerely want to hear from you. They want to hear from the artists that they follow.
A lot of it’s about creating that value isn’t it?
Absolutely.. and to do that you need to listen to them and then act on on what you hear.
I think these days fans have more of a voice than ever.. They’re the ones who tell you what works and what doesn’t.. They’re the ones who will take your story into their hands and continue to write it and ensure that you know your story lives on.
My advice is to listen to them.. learn to understand what motivates your various audiences and I say that because there won’t just be one audience.. You’ll have different segments of each audience as well and figure out how your story intersects with theirs.
Don’t be shy about asking them to contribute.. They want to do that they want to have access to the bands that they love.. the musicians they love.. That’s what they love most about music.
So, at the end of the gig make sure you do the rounds of the room and talk to people.. buy them a drink if they look like they could be the super fans.. Consider giving them involvement in a project too. Ask them what songs to include at your next live set or ask them what your next single would be or the next one that you’re going to make into a video..
Actually ask for their help and that’ll engage them even more and it’s more community building if you like but it’s better that, than sales driven marketing.. It’s subtle and it’s organic.
Do you think that’s the best way to keep them engaged long term as well?
Absolutely, communicating regularly, as I said, is really important as well asking for their input.. Get them involved with your marketing.. even ask them for help.. ask them to help promote your next gig.. ask them to put up posters.. That will build the relationship and the stronger that it becomes, the more likely they are to be converted into long-term, loyal fans who will be out there spreading the word on your behalf.
Do you have an example of an artist that you think has been extremely successful in regards to building that buzz around their music?
There’s plenty of examples.. from a dinosaur band like the Stones.. through to Gotye when he was at his top, to the Teskey Brothers recently.
I think they’re a fantastic example of that.. all those and many many more have been extremely successful in building a buzz and all started with the basic building block of having wonderful talent that helps.. but there are plenty of examples of talent musos who have fallen by the wayside and haven’t been able to do what these guys do.
The Teskey Brothers do it really really well.. they started by building a brand. If you look at every communication they’ve ever put out, it’s always got that same look and feel and they then started building an email list back in regional Victoria and talking to those fans regularly and getting those fans to talk about them and it’s funny, even today with successful overseas tours and ARIA awards and three great albums, there’s still a lot of Aussies that don’t know who the Teskey Brothers are.
There’s an awful lot more who are out there spreading the word on their behalf because of the way they’ve done that.. I’m one of them.. I love them..
Are there any legalities that we need to be aware of in the process?
There are.. In particular the spam act and the national privacy principles.. you raise yourself with them and abide by them so you know that you know what opt-ins and opt-outs are all about, for example. You don’t want to be talking to those people who don’t want to hear from you anyway..
Where to find David Keogh:
Karen Harding is a Melbourne, Australia based singer/songwriter, founder of Sounds On The Couch, and founder and operator of boutique music PR service for emerging and independent artists, Rise Indie.